[mkgmap-dev] option link-pois-to-ways information

Mon Feb 21 09:16:35 GMT 2022

Hi Ticker,

the special tag mkgmap:way-has-pois was never meant to be used by the style,
it could have been another bit flag in class Way as it was for internal use.
I wasn't happy to document it in the first place as it is of no use for style authors.

My concern is that these tags are really confusing for those who don't understand
the logic behind them. We have so many internal tags and the current style manual
sometimes fails to make clear if those tags are set by mkgmap before the style
is used or read by mkgmap after the style is used.

Besides that the problem that you want to solve seems quite special. Since you
have no examples I may not understand what problem it is but my current
understanding is that you had some mistagged OSM ways which happened to have
a barrier node which probably also missed proper access tags.
Adding a special rule for those is likely to cause trouble somewhere else.

Gerd

________________________________________
Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces at lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag von Ticker Berkin <rwb-mkgmap at jagit.co.uk>
Gesendet: Montag, 21. Februar 2022 09:57
An: mkgmap development
Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] option link-pois-to-ways information

Hi Gerd

Judging by the lack of posts and changes relating to precise access
handling and its effects on routeing, I doubt if there will be anyone
else who says they need this.

The proposed mkgmap:poi-{highway,barrier} variables are much more use
than mkgmap:way-has-pois, which isn't used by any of the styles
provided by mkgmap.

My version of inc/access[_country] handles the more subtle features of
OSM access and maps them onto Garmin in an accurate manner.

However there isn't one solutions for service roads where access hasn't
been specified; sometimes through-routeing should be prevented,
sometimes not. There isn't a reliable method to decide, but POI
barriers on the road are a good hint.

If your concern is efficiency, I can probably improve the hook logic so
that it is better than before while still implementing the new
variables. If you don't like the names I can change them.

Ticker

On Thu, 2022-02-17 at 13:48 +0000, Gerd Petermann wrote:
> Hi Ticker,
>
> so really not a single real world OSM example for me?
>
> Anyway, my concern about this is that you combine it with the option
> that possibly creates a route restriction or
> causes a split of the way and I don't see how this is related.
>
> Let's see if anybody else wants this.
>
> Gerd
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces at lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag
> von Ticker Berkin <rwb-mkgmap at jagit.co.uk>
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. Februar 2022 13:39
> An: Development list for mkgmap
> Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] option link-pois-to-ways information
>
> Hi Gerd
>
> These cases happen in retail/business/industry/leisure/holiday parks
> and similar.
>
> Typical problems are:
> a) Being routed through because there was no tagging to suggest that
> this isn't permissible or even possible.
> b) Routing choosing the wrong way to get into the area.
> c) Valid walking ways inhibited by either bad tagging or incorrect
> logic in inc/access
>
> When I encounter a problem, I look at the tagging to see why it has
> happened, and, if blatantly wrong, fix it.
>
> Mostly, however, I don't want to change access rules on clusters of
> roads (mostly service) that I know nothing about concerning rights of
> way, etc.
>
> I then see if I can fix or enhance inc/access to handle the scenario
> better for next time.
>
> There is no perfect solution but, doing a lot of walking and driving
> to
> obscure places I am less frequently faced with wrong routing
> decisions.
>
> Ticker
>
> On Thu, 2022-02-17 at 10:11 +0000, Gerd Petermann wrote:
> > Hi Ticker,
> >
> > with examples I meant links to OSM ways.
> >
> > My current understanding is that these OSM ways may need different
> > tagging.
> >
> > Gerd
> >
> > ________________________________________
> > Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces at lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im Auftrag
> > von Ticker Berkin <rwb-mkgmap at jagit.co.uk>
> > Gesendet: Donnerstag, 17. Februar 2022 10:59
> > An: Development list for mkgmap
> > Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] option link-pois-to-ways information
> >
> > Hi Gerd
> >
> > My problem is relating to car routing and highway=service where no
> > explicit access is specified,
> >
> > For driveways I set access=private.
> >
> > For others, it is debatable as to what to do:
> > 1/ Nothing.
> >    This can allow routing through somewhere entirely inappropriate.
> > 2/ Always set access=destination.
> >    This will stop through routing that could be allowed/efficient.
> > 3/ only set access=destination if there seems to be a barrier.
> >
> > Any of these can still lead to the problem with new Garmin routing
> > algo
> > using a footpath, but 2/ makes it more likely to happen. Where the
> > destination is truly in the service area it is easy to check the
> > last
> > steps of the chosen route to detect this problem.
> >
> > My later logic transforms the access into combinations of
> >    mkgmap:foot/car/...=yes/no
> >    mkgmap:throughroute=yes/no
> >
> > Ticker
> >
> > On Thu, 2022-02-17 at 08:28 +0000, Gerd Petermann wrote:
> > > Hi Ticker,
> > >
> > > I don't see a problem with the patch, but I also don't see how it
> > > solves a problem
> > > with wrong routing.
> > >
> > > Please give me some examples for highways where this would help.
> > >
> > > Gerd
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ________________________________________
> > > Von: mkgmap-dev <mkgmap-dev-bounces at lists.mkgmap.org.uk> im
> > > Auftrag
> > > von Ticker Berkin <rwb-mkgmap at jagit.co.uk>
> > > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 16. Februar 2022 17:58
> > > An: Development list for mkgmap
> > > Betreff: Re: [mkgmap-dev] option link-pois-to-ways information
> > >
> > > Hi Gerd
> > >
> > > Attached a patch to create 2 mkgmap: variables when --link-pois-
> > > to-
> > > ways
> > > operates.
> > >
> > > mkgmap:poi-barrier is a list of the distinct POI barrier= tags on
> > > the
> > > way, so it will have values like:
> > >   mkgmap:poi-barrier=gate;bollard
> > >
> > > mkgmap:poi-highway is similar but a list of the highway= tags,
> > > eg:
> > >   mkgmap:poi-highway=mini_roundabout;crossing
> > >
> > > These can be tested eg:
> > >   highway=service & access!=* & mkgmap:poi-barrier=* &
> > >      mkgmap:poi-barrier~".*(yes|barrier|gate|bollard|block).*"
> > >        {set access=destination}
> > >
> > > If you are happy with this I'll update the Style Manual.
> > >
> > > Ticker
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mkgmap-dev mailing list
> > mkgmap-dev at lists.mkgmap.org.uk
> > https://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
> > _______________________________________________
> > mkgmap-dev mailing list
> > mkgmap-dev at lists.mkgmap.org.uk
> > https://www.mkgmap.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/mkgmap-dev
>
>
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